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CXperts Episode #11: Jen Burton, Head of Customer Support at Digit - The Importance of Transparency and Being a Data-forward Leader

  

CXperts: Alexander Kvamme meets with Jen Burton, Head of Customer Support at Digit, to discuss a career journey to CX leadership. Including building communities, working in product, being at start-ups, and going through acquisitions, to navigating the balance of managing in-house and offshore teams.


CXperts is a podcast where we dive into the hot topics and trends around customer experience with thought leaders and luminaries from the world’s most recognizable and successful companies and brands.

This week’s episode: Alexander Kvamme meets with Jen Burton, Head of Customer Support at Digit, to discuss her incredible career and how she wins over people and leads teams with her curiosity, data-driven approach, and passion for creating great experiences for both employees and customers.

Jen has spent the past 20+ years building great teams and has a transparent leadership style that builds trust and creates dedicated employees and loyal customers. Jen is also a volunteer CX coach at Zendesk for startups.

Digit is an automated savings app that analyzes what goes in and out of your checking account. Then, it periodically moves funds from checking to savings in amounts its algorithms believe are safe to save. Digit has helped members save over $7.6 billion. At the end of 2021, Digit was acquired by Oportun, which offers affordable credit to people excluded from the financial mainstream.

Watch on YouTube or listen on Spotify, Google Podcast, or Apple Podcast.

Transcript:

Alexander Kvamme 00:27
Okay, welcome everyone to another CXperts podcast, where we dive in to hot topics and trends around customer experience with thought leaders and luminaries from the world's most recognizable and fastest growing companies. I'm your host today, Alex Kvamme, co-founder and CEO of Pathlight. Pathlight's a performance platform for managing customer facing teams. We combine analytics and insights, performance management, workforce optimization, employee engagement, so much more.  

This is going to be a really exciting episode. My guest today is a friend of mine and a friend of Pathlight's, Jen Burton, head of customer support at Digit and just an overall CX veteran with the scars to show for it. For those who don't know Digit, Digit is an all-in-one app that intelligently banks, budget, saves, and invests. It's helped members save over seven and a half billion so far. In December of last year in 2021, Digit was acquired by Oportun, which offers affordable credit to people excluded from the financial mainstream. Jen's also a volunteer CX coach at Zendesk, and as I said, a veteran and luminary in this space. Jen, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you.

Jen Burton 01:41
Thanks so much, Alex. I'm super excited to be here. I'm honored to be a friend of yours and of Pathlight, so I'm looking forward to today.

Alexander Kvamme 01:50
So Jen, you know the ground rules here. We like to keep this super tactical for operators, by operators. So the first thing I want to do is just establish your operating credentials, and it's a long list. And so, just looking back to the turn of the millennium, you worked at Amazon customer service in 1998, from 1998 to 2000. I'll get into the rest of it, but what was customer service at Amazon in 1998?

Jen Burton 02:23
Well, when I started there, Amazon was books only. And so we were working at terminals using Unix to answer customer emails. We did have some phones, but the focus at Amazon at that point was emails. While I was there, we launched CDs, we launched an auctions product. It was pretty wild. It was pretty wild in the early days. We had a great time.

Alexander Kvamme 02:53
How big was the team at that time?

Jen Burton 02:55
I think the CS team at that time was 400. Folks, all full-time employees working around the clock in one office in downtown Seattle, we shared desks. We had a great time.

Alexander Kvamme 03:09
That's so cool. And so you we're at Amazon for two years. And then you held a variety of customer service roles. And then also it looks like product marketing and product management, community management. And then the other thing that kind jumps out to me is you're seven years at Fandom as VP of community. And then you kind of move from community to customer success, customer operations, and then head of customer support at Digit. So I'm guessing you go where the fire is and you'll wear whatever hat you need to wear. I'm just curious. This detour into product marketing and product management, what was that about?

Jen Burton 03:59
Well, let's put aside product marketing because it wasn't that long of a tenure. So I don't have much interesting things to say about that. But product management, really for me, my PM roles were customer facing. These were building tools and features that our customers directly used. So it was natural progression for me, from having a deep understanding of what customers want, how they move about, questions they have, to be able to move into product management and anticipate those questions and solve them in the product before the customer ever saw them.

Alexander Kvamme 04:39
Yeah. Very often, the folks in customer service, they develop a product sense, and they have to. Very often, it's a great segue into product management as a career. But I think the siren song of customer support was too strong for you, you went back into customer support.

I think my first topic that I want to discuss with you is going to key off both your experience at Fandom and at Digit, which is this very common challenge for our CX leaders, which is going from one product to multiple products, or in Fandom's case, one game to multiple games, or one line of business to multiple lines of business. Obviously, you've got the cold start problem of starting a CX organization at the founding of a company or the initial product, but then that problem repeats itself as you go from one to many. And that, in fact, I bet you, there are some added difficulties because there's already a specific way of doing things you might need to kind of change that momentum for other products. But maybe help us understand... Or first maybe what was your experience going from one to many, both at Fandom and that Digit, what kind of challenges are you always encountering when you're doing that? And then how do you navigate that successfully?

Jen Burton 06:03
Right. Right. That's a great question. With the challenges, the number one challenge when you go from a singular focus with one team into having to then build teams to support multiple products is going to be change management. How do we work with our teams to help them feel competent and understand what's going on to decide whether we're going to have folks working hybrid or not? And then to just be part of a team that's growing. When I started at Fandom, I think there were less than 50 employees. When I left, there were a little over 300. We had been through an acquisition. So it was change management, I think, when leading teams and adding products and adding complexities and growing. At Fandom, a sales function and a marketing function is really about supporting those folks who are working on the products and providing support to our members. That's really what I see my main role as a leader is, is really helping those team members be successful.

Alexander Kvamme 07:10
So let's double click into change management because it's a big term and it means a lot of different things and a lot of different things you run in parallel. With limited time and resources, if you had to roll out a new change or roll out a new business line of product or workflow or something like that, what are the key fundamental tenants of change management that our audience should get right? One, two and three. What are the priorities there?

Jen Burton 07:40
Yeah. Well, my first priority as a leader when there are changes coming is I need to have a deep understanding of the what and the why. What is the new product? Why are we doing this? Why do things need to change in customer support? And then how will do that? And the reason why it's so key for me to understand is because then I'm responsible for coaching and teaching the various teams about these changes. And from there, I think with Digit last year, we rolled out a banking product that for the first time in Digit's history required live phone support. So what was key for me to be successful there last year was I knew I needed to bring in one or two leaders who had managed teams who were focusing on live phone support. And from there we needed to build a team who were ready to hop on the phones.

We expanded the Digit support team, almost doubled it last year. So we go back to the topic of change management, we need to be planning, we need to be ready. We also need to be really flexible. Because I think as we all probably know in our careers, change happens but sometimes it's not the change we expected. So there needs to be a sense of flexibility. As a leader, I need to really instill into my team that change is expected, and actually it's okay. We're good. We got this. So I think deep understanding, flexibility, and then putting the right people in place to support the change.

Alexander Kvamme 09:21
I love that that first thing is you understanding the why of that change and really making sure that you could explain the reasoning and the nature of those changes both to your leadership team as well as the frontline as well.

That makes tons of sense. And then when you think about when it comes to change management, what are the different phases of that process? What I mean by that is you've got a prep phase, you've got the initial rollout phase, maybe a secondary full rollout, and then you're monitoring progress over time. How do you think about a six month timeline for that change? Just so again, our audience can kind create that structure, we can give them that structure that they can then just start filling in.

Jen Burton 10:17
For sure. I mean, at startups, the CS org needs to be very close with the product org. We need to understand timing. We need to understand impact. We need to understand their goals and their vision for the products because from there, we need to start modeling. We need to start modeling out staffing plans, hours of support, channels. What I do there is... So I have an understanding of the general contact per user we see at Digit. And so we go from there, it's like, "Okay, we're going to roll out this new product. Our intelligence says we're going to see X percent of contact per member on this new product." And then keep track of that rollout plan. We at Digit and most startups, we don't just rip the bandaid off, right? We go slowly. We do a lot of iterative testing. 

So it's that really close relationship with product. And I'll throw business in there as well, right? We need to understand what the business is dictating to help model. And so that's the first thing. And then as we're heading into, testing was really important. Again, at Digit we hadn't had live phones before so we did a lot of testing, a lot of mock calls. We had other members of the business call in and started testing and understanding what the topics were going to be. So that's test. And then at go live. We felt really confident at Digit. We had tested for months. We knew this was coming. The product development cycle, it took several months. So we had time to train on new tools. We had time to train on phones. And then when we went general availability in November, we were ready to go.

And so now we are in August, mid-August of 2022, we've been acquired. And so now what we're working on, continuing to model all the time because I need to plan for hiring. We do have a small offshore presence in the Philippines. We're at the size and the point now where it's like, "Okay, we're going to need to expand our offshore presence." And so where my modeling right now is how quickly can we get a team up to speed for new products that are coming, discussions around the split between fulltime employees and offshore employees.

And then it comes down to a lot of Excel spreadsheets. At this point, we're doing math. Of course management wants to know how much money I want to spend on headcount and tools. We want to know the incremental cost between either staying full time or expanding offshore. And so that's where I am right now in leading the team at Digit, is getting down to understanding how and when we expand and what the split will be between full time and offshore. I have no intention of ever going fully offshore. Philosophically, I don't believe in that. My intention and my goal at Digit is to build this incredible, really strong team of leaders as Digit full-time employees who then can lead the offshore team as we expand.

Alexander Kvamme 13:45
That first point is really a great insight, which is staying in lockstep with product, because through product you're going to understand what big changes are coming in six months. And then that gives you months to test and prepare what you really benefited from. But also just the nature of software and technology is that the initial GA, the product's going to look pretty different six months after GA, right?

And so it's not just that first release. It's understanding the subsequent releases and predicting how that's going to impact the customer experience and therefore kind of the customer support requirements. I think it's a really good insight, really lockstep because a lot of your forecasting as well as your enablement and change management strategy is going to be driven off of, "Okay, what's changing for our user? What's the experience of our user and how has it changed on our customer and how is it changing over time?"

You've got a little bit of a hot take here so I'm going to dig into that on your belief or your firm stance that you don't want to be 100% offshore outsource. Let's dig into that.

What's the reasoning? Is it based off of past personal experience? And then you also kind of touched on your ideal scaled state. Often, normally the normal path once you reach maybe 50, 60, 70, certainly 100 plus frontline agents is to off offshore and outsource and do that relatively aggressively to help scale in and reduce cost. What's your view on that? Let's double click a little bit more into that perspective of, "Hey, I want to make sure we always have an in-house full-time team"?

Jen Burton 15:49
Yeah, for sure. So I think the team I want to work for and be a part of has some measure of autonomy and ability to be a little more transparent and not have to follow scripts. So that's where I want to work. And so if this is where I want to work, I want to make sure we're creating that environment. The reason why it's really important to me... I want to step back a little bit and say I don't discount the importance and value of an offshore team. The way I see it is that a full-time employee team should be those who are handling kind of tier two, tier three escalated complaints and troubleshooting and technical support because those folks can move very quickly. If we see a bug, we can get that internal full-time employee team addressing that and adjusting to that bug in minutes. Whereas, you have to go through some cycles and get in touch with folks over at an offshore team.

So the offshore team is our tier one level, right? These are what I think of as the FAQ level questions. As we get more complex, we will be adding layers of expertise offshore. My vision for the Digit full-time team is that these folks, they hold our culture in place. They're able to move and adjust very quickly. And why it's important to hold culture in place is because I want that culture to move over to the offshore team as well. I want them to see how we work and operate. I do not want Digit's members to experience what we saw often as these really frustrating call center experiences. I don't want that to be what our members experience. I want our members to walk away from every interaction with Digit, whether it's offshore or in-house. I think about it in terms of wanting every member to come away and say, "Digit has my back." And culture is a big part of a CS agent, being able to have the customers back. I want these agents to be a part of Digit in a very clear way.

Alexander Kvamme 18:10
That's great, yeah. It sounds like your strategy to scale is just to think about, "Hey, I'm going to scale tier one" or, "I need the ability to scale tier one." Eventually, there comes multiple tiers, tier two even, and, "I'm going to do that via outsourcing and offshoring," but the nature of the product and the customer experience that you want to drive as well as I love that call the company you want to work for is one where those thorny problems. You've got a team of highly trained, highly motivated believers who can act obviously with the customer's best interest, but also cross functionally and really drive change very quickly on the product side to not only solve that one customer's issue, but prevent those issues from happening in the future.

Jen Burton 19:13
Right. And at Digit, one of the things that I actually do anywhere I work and have put in place in Digit is a support operations team. Those folks are support experts. They've been customer service and customer support folks for a long time and they partner directly with product. It's a two-way street. The operations specialists are responsible for getting product changes, new features that training and communication over to the CS team. So that is email macros, help center articles, announcements. And then the other direction is getting that voice of customer back to product and business. So it's this full circle makes a tremendous difference. I think every one of us has experienced that situation where we learn about a feature or a change from a customer, and that's pretty rough. So that's why the idea of a support operations, we call them different things at different companies, is so important to me to build a really high functioning CS team.

Alexander Kvamme 20:25
Yeah, it harkens back to your point on staying in lockstep with product. And that support operations team, it sounds like that's the bridge and that's the team that is going to make sure that the frontline customer facing support folks are experts in the current version and the latest and greatest so that you can avoid that issue of learning of a change in our feature via an inbound ticket, which as you said, we've all experienced. That's not the most pleasant experience. Again, that's the multiproduct, the one to many kind of problem set.

The other thing you've got quite a bit of experience with is acquisitions. Fandom, you went through an acquisition there. At Digit, you went through an acquisition there. It's a very specific thing. Very rarely does someone have experience with that? And so for the folks listening for the first time or coming back to this because it's happening to them, what's the guidance you would give to the CX leader on navigating through an acquisition?

Jen Burton 21:45
For sure. Two things, one, transparency, and two, change management. Oportun is a public company and Digit is a startup and VC funded. So that was a big change and we're still learning. The transparency for me was really important was to say, "Hey, I'm going through some soul searching here as well." I'm really thinking about how this is going to impact my career. And is this the path I want to stay on?" And ultimately, I came to that conclusion that I'm obviously here at Digit and I'm here for the long haul. And I really strongly believe in this merger of Oportun and Digit. Our missions are so tightly and intertwined. So what's important to me about that transparency is that gave my team room to say, "Yeah, this is on my mind too." And we were able to then open up and have those conversations.

Fantastically, we have not had any turnover as a result of the acquisition [in CS]. People are still feeling... We feel very strong and good about these two companies coming together. Change management is also a part of that. And again, it goes back to what I said earlier, is that I need to understand what's going on. I was fortunate enough to come in towards the tail end of due diligence. And so I had an opportunity to meet with folks from Oportun to really understand the nuts and bolts behind the acquisition and the decision. And that set me up to be able to show the team that I have confidence in the leadership at Oportun, and that I have confidence in what a great match this is.

So I think those two. And then there's obviously answering questions, right? "What's a restricted stock unit? How does this impact my compensation? Are we going to have to become a part of the Oportun customer support organization or do we stay independent? All of those things, these questions that are natural that come up with such a major change is really just about communication and transparency. I go back to that's the environment I want to be in, and so that's the environment I'm going to work hard to create for my team.

Alexander Kvamme 24:04
So I'm in total agreement with you, when an acquisition happens, people kind of revert to the base of the Maslow Hierarchy of Needs, right?

First question is like, "Do I have a job?" Right?

"What's that job look like? Is anything affected that I thought was stable?" Right?

And I think what you're saying is obviously, anticipating those questions, understanding those answers and maybe addressing them at the onset in that memo or in that all hands to relieve as much uncertainty as possible because, and at least from my perspective, the killer of momentum of morale is not the decision. It's the uncertainty, right?

It's the lack of clarity. It's the lack of transparency. So again, I mean, you're right, it's just change management once again. So it's understanding the why and communicating very transparently. That makes sense. So you have a parent company now, and in any scenario, that parent company has its own kind of customer service functions, its own team, its own resources and also its own strategy and maybe even its own view of customer experience. So again, as a leader, how do you kind of navigate and interact and help kind of lead that charge of whether you guys are coming together more directly or more indirectly, whatever the strategy may be? But how do you think about just interacting with another set of peers and leaders who have a different business that they've been supporting and maybe a different mindset on CX?

Jen Burton 26:14
Yeah, I mean, I'm still learning. I'm still learning. Oportun is a much larger company. They have a pretty large CX organization and they're also split into multiple products just as Digit. So they have credit cards, they have loan products. So they function as business units as well. So how do we do this? What I'm learning is who my peers are. One of the things I'm really excited about has been this opportunity to learn from the CX leaders at Oportun, from the retail organization, to the digital and the loan products and credit cards. This is a huge opportunity for me as a leader, is to be able to get to know and partner with folks who have this experience really growing large teams and navigating a lot of change. So I'm taking advantage of that. It's selfishly great for me.

I am learning and are able to start moving some of Oportun's best practices into how we do things at Digit and vice versa. Right now, the Digit CX organization is very independent, which is really fantastic. The banking unit, the banking business unit, there's just so much respect that we're the subject matter experts over here, whereas credit cards and personal loans are also their own subject matter experts. So I feel as a leader who has now been part of an organization that was acquired by a larger company, I feel the respect Oportun has for Digit and for what we've built and who we are and what our culture is. And that has continued to move into other teams. And I'm certainly feeling that with the ability to remain independent and to make decisions that are best for Digit members.

Alexander Kvamme 28:31
I'll summarize the underlying statement here, which is, keep an open mind and see it as an opportunity to learn and improve. Again, just restating for the audience. It would be totally reasonable, though you wouldn't make Jen as awesome of a leader as she is if she was like, "Hey, I was doing CX at Amazon in '98. I've seen it all. I've seen this movie before and I know what needs to be known." And so I think it's really great to see and I think that's really the takeaway here, is see every opportunity as a learning opportunity and a way to improve your organization and find best practices that the parent group or your peer groups are doing and roll them out to your organization.

There's always a way to raise your bar.

Jen Burton 29:35
Yep. Well, I will say this know-it-alls are super boring. People who think they have nothing to learn are really boring. It's important to me to know what I don't know.

Alexander Kvamme 29:47
Yeah. I would probably use a harsher term for know-it-alls, but you're more diplomatic than I. So the last general topic I want to cover is just the digital transformation of the space. Again, Amazon in '98, you said you were using Unix to handle kind of customer queries.

You've seen firsthand just an explosion in technology in this space and how different it is between 2022 and 1998, both in the way we do our work and interact with our customers and the technology that we use to do that and the ecosystem in general. And so, one of the problems that everyone has seen over the last really 10 years, and especially the last five years is, gosh, is a proliferation of data and software. And what we haven't seen and we don't expect is a correlated increase in data literacy. It's not as we got more tools and more data, everyone also went back to school for a stats class or a data scientist class or something like that. And so how do you now, kind of having seen this trend over time and work through that, how do you think about managing your organization, managing this stack and leveraging data so that it's an opportunity and it's not a hindrance or a distraction?

Jen Burton 31:44
I love that, that data is an opportunity. I'm very data-driven. I can't write a SQL query to save my life so I am dependent on BI tools that someone else has programmed. But data is absolutely key to building a successful team. You can even use data... Well, I'll say this. People's experience is hard to quantify, what that member walks away from. Certainly we have CSAT, we have efficiency metrics. We have all of this data to help us make our best guess at the customer experience. But there's little bits here that we still need to respect and continue to have a part in our development of what a successful team looks like. But back to data, I love it. I love that I can pull a report. Prior to Pathlight, I would go pull a report and get as close to real time as I could. This is what we're seeing, "Hey, we're out of SLA here. Hey, this topic is getting a low CSAT. What do we need to do?"

Now, Pathlight means I don't have to do that. And it means the CS managers know what's going on before I go to them, which they all find very annoying. No one wants the leader to be like, "What's going on?" So they all have access to that very quickly. And no more spreadsheets. We would get on Zoom and go line by line over spreadsheets. We don't have to do that anymore.

I'll just put a plug in. I know people can get often the first response to transparency is that frontline folks will feel bad if they see how their performance compares. Anytime I've had this sort of public performance management, people love it. It may be difficult that first couple of days, but man, when they get into it, you know? People want to be successful at our core. And I think we lose that sometimes. And so this is a really great way for people to be like, "Okay, I'm starting to slip. I can't have anyone see that. I've got to bump it up." So I love that about Pathlight. I also love that our managers can really just take a quick note, add it to a one on one doc for conversation and give that feedback very clearly with that data in the moment.

Alexander Kvamme 34:15
Goes back to this theme of this conversation which is transparency. So I think the answer to the question of how you treat data as an opportunity is to make it transparently accessible at every level. I love what you said about... Now, you called this out very accurately, which is sometimes there's hesitation on, "Hey, how are people going to feel about this transparency?" And for whatever reason, we assume that people aren't going to like it. In our experience, and obviously your experience, they love it. And as we said, what's significantly worse than transparency is no transparency and uncertainty and waiting for Jen, my boss's boss, to tell me, "Hey, what's going on?"

That is orders of magnitude worse than understanding that, "Hey, something's not working well ahead of it hitting your desk." And again, you're moving kind of transforming from this top down to a bottoms up mentality.

Jen Burton 35:37
Yeah. I've learned the hard way that transparency really builds trust and trust is really key to engagement and happiness at work. The hard way I've learned it is by being that person who's just come in, and I call it the hand of God and just said, "Hey, this is what's going on. Just go do it." That doesn't work so well. Some folks will take it and go with it, but it does results in people being unhappy, not trusting, not feeling that they're a part of these conversations and these decisions that are made. So transparency at all levels, it is key not only for our team to be successful, but I really believe it's key for our members to feel connected to Digit as well.

Alexander Kvamme 36:25
And it goes back to the organization that you said you want to work for and that you want to build where you've got these folks who are all in, right?

They're subject matter experts and they're passionate about the company, about helping customers. Most folks, that's the goal of their organization. You're not alone in that desire, but as you said, you're never going to get there if you're management philosophy is hand of God, right?

Is, "Do this or else," is command and control and manage through surprises, right? Dive bombing management maybe is the right way of describing it.

Jen Burton 37:19
Right. For sure. I have to say, I don't want to anyone to walk away being like, "Jen never dive bombs." Sometimes it happens. Sometimes I learn about things really close to the edge. And so I do have to go to my team and be like, "Pump the brakes. This is where we're going." And that's just the nature of being part of a startup, though I think it just happens sometimes.

Alexander Kvamme 37:44
Yeah. One maybe final question before we wrap. So customer experience, it's important for every industry. It's even more important for FinTech.

For over a variety of reasons, but really the business model and a lot of business metrics depend on the customer support team kind of hitting their goals and also resolving issues. So how do you think about quality and also scaling quality in a FinTech context where the stakes are really high and making sure that as you scale, you're still ensuring, "Hey, you're reviewing conversations. You are kind of obviously having a qualitative approach, but you're doing it in a quantitative way and a kind of structured and measured way"? How do you think about quality management for a FinTech company?

Jen Burton 38:54
Yeah. There's several things happening here in FinTechs. If we think about it, chiefly, I want everyone to really internalize and understand that we need our members to trust us because Digit, the product, could mean the difference between being able to pay rent or not, right? And so we're dealing with folks' money and there's a lot of fear and anxiety around access to funds and emergencies. When I think about the larger traditional banks, I think about people walking away from them feeling frustrated that it's a closed door experience, they don't know what's going on. And at FinTechs we're new. And so people already don't understand. Can we be trusted? Are we just some fly by night organization that's going to disappear? So that is also super key.

And so when I work with the team, number one, I think about it as far as when we want to look at quality, it has to be fast, but it has to be great. We have a really good response rate on our SLA. We're very happy with it. I would love to get into the minutes on email, but that's what you can do with phones and chat. You get into seconds. Currently, emails our primary channel. So I want folks to... Someone contacts us and is like, "Where's my money? I need it to pay rent." I don't want them to have to wait a day to hear back from us. There are times because we're limited by traditional banking transfer methods that we're not able to speed up those transfers, but I want that customer to walk away understanding. So that's really key, so fast and great.

Now, when it comes... No one's got 100% customer satisfaction. That's just not reality. And so what we do is we use a QA program because I think most of us in CS understand that customer satisfaction metrics are a little loose because quite often people are rating the product or the policy, not the quality of service they've received. So we use QA as part of getting a really holistic view of an individual's performance. And we're able to really help those folks go to the next level.           

So for example, authenticity. People feel it's inauthentic sometimes to throw a cheerful in there, especially if they're having a bad day and they're not super stoked about anything. Going to a member and really working to connect with them can feel inauthentic. And so we do training around that and how can we adjust our language and our words to get a sense of connection with those members, which then goes back to building trust with them. We've got their money, they need to trust us.

Alexander Kvamme 42:07
Yeah. It goes back to understanding the customer. And again, you highlighted perfectly the stakes of these conversations. We work with quite a few folks in FinTech. And the stakes are always the same. The customer is chatting in from the grocery store lines and in the checkout line and they are five customers away from having to pay for their groceries and the expediency with which you solve that ticket is going to determine whether that's successful or not. Can you imagine a more stressful situation?

It's so important. But of course I think these organizations are lucky to have folks like you think about and take care of these customers. I think it's a great way to end it.

Jen, thank you for your time and your insight. It's been great to chat with you today. For our audience. If you want to get in touch with Jen, I think you can connect with her on LinkedIn. She's also a coach through Zendesk. I'm sure you can get in touch with her there. And we'll put some notes in the show notes there. If you want to learn more about Digit, go to their website or any of their products or Oportun for that matter. And if you want to learn anything more about Pathlight and how we help companies like Digit, just go to pathlight.com and reach out. We'd love to talk to you. That's it for us in another CXperts podcast. I'll just thank you once again, Jen, it was great to have you.

Jen Burton 43:42
Thanks so much, Alex. I really enjoyed these talks. And just another plug for Pathlight, we're having a great time with it. It's actually pretty fun, so thank you so much.

Alexander Kvamme 43:53
I love that. Marketing's always trying to look at ROI, but I think that's the tagline, is like, we're having a great time. That's it. That's great.

Jen Burton 44:00
Yeah.

Alexander Kvamme 44:01
Okay. Thanks, Jen.

Jen Burton 44:01
Thanks, Alex.

Alexander Kvamme 44:02
And to our faithful listeners, bye for now.


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